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99 on the button

New postby robbiebox » Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:04 pm

This is from Last nights game at the Grosvenor and is the hand I went out on ( Snapper took 2nd by the way).

Final table , first hand:

Im on the button with 8.5k. Blinds are 200/400. under the gun limps , mid position limps and I decide to just limp with 99 ( I know should have raised, but it was Snappers Big Blind and I'm a nice guy) SB and BB just call & check.
FLOP is~ Jd 4d Jh
sb,bb check and under the gun (utg) throws out a 500 chip into a 2k pot, i figure im up here so re-raise 1600, just utg left who calls.
TURN is~ 10d
utg bets 700, I am now worried so decide to put in a small re-raise to try and protect from a bet on the river as much as win it there and now. However he comes over the top after a long act. I go into the tank and just cant put him on a hand. Maybe he had a pocket pair, maybe AK, AQ or KQ with a diamond. Maybe hes got J10 or JA, but why small bet on the turn? Decide most likely is a straight draw with flush draw and overcards that he cant lay down, so has decided to push. I am in so deep now and figure I could still be up so eventually call.
He instantly turns over his cards~ Jc 4c for a flopped full house !! and me drawing dead.

Not happy with a few of my plays last night, but this one is for discussion.
Obviously could have protected with a pre-flop raise, but as i chose to limp, how else could/should I have played?
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New postby MINTCAKE » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:11 pm

Ul Jon...good effort m8 and well played Snapper

A defo raise was in order i do beleive on the buuton Jon.....just to get rid of all the crap on the table including the J4
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New postby Treeny » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:49 pm

Hi Jon,

You don't mention how big UTG's stack is but I'll assume it's similar to yours.

Preflop - You know what you should have done there :)

Flop - I think the raise was correct. When he calls you it's time to worry. You are representing a jack by raising yet he still calls. At this point I would put him on 44, AJ, AKd-AJd, KQd, JJ (very unlikely). You are a dog against this range, all you are ahead of are his flush draws.

Turn - The flush comes in, now you beat nothing. It's time to give up and move on. I don't think you're in too deep here, you still have 16 BB's left.

WTF - how did he get to the final table playing junk from UTG!!!
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New postby Snapper » Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:40 am

Well you know my thoughts because we talked about it on the way back. I totally agree that it was certainly very strange playing J4 utg, couldn't believe it myself but as you know i would of raised to push stupid hands out, and even when the flat call came in i found the 500 bet suspicious because this guy was on our table to begin with and always seemed to bet quite big in contrast to the pot usually 2/3rds or at least 1/2 the pot, so i found his bet suspicous and i don't think you could of beat anything on the river except a bluff and he didn't seem to of been bluffin much all night however i'm not sure how he accumulated his chips but they were soon dispensed into my stack.

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New postby robbiebox » Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:54 pm

Treeny, his stack was about 13k.
Raising pre-flop was an option and I had thought about it, but the blinds were still small compared to my stack size (20+ BB's) and I didn't want to get committed. So I feel not raising pre-flop here was not a terrible play with two limpers, as a raise does get rid of J4 and the like but middle pairs are a difficult hand to play post flop usually.
Didn't notice his size of bet Snapper previously, although I had seen him make bets at pots which I felt had been steals and felt he had played a lot of hands and was a bit of a gambler. If I had been as observant as you and seen him previously only make good size continuation bets, then I would not have raised his 'small' flop bet.

I tried to win the pot straight away on the flop and I think this is what caused me problems as it made the pot bigger and eventually this led me to chase it down all-in to the river.
I should have just called and kept the pot small as my hand was only marginal (I thought). Even if I had decided to follow through to the river then, I would only have faced smaller bets milking me and probably only lost between 2k-3k.

Lesson/Message Im taking from this hand is to stab once at the pot or keep the pot small when holding what I think are marginal winning hands.

Thanks for the thoughts guys.
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New postby muzz100 » Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:09 pm

never mind how you played your hand. i wanna know what he was doing on the final table calling utg with j 4 anyway. in my opinion as youve stated you should have definitely raised. after limpers then you know that if utg character reraises then it stinks of kings or aces in first position.

anyway after the flop I would have reraised his bet, (as you did). Its the small bet on the turn that worries me. fair enough putting a small reraise to see where you are but when he comes over the top for all your chips, I think its safe to say youre beat (j, flush, big pair) as he could have called in 1st position hoping to reraise someone who raises preflop.

obviously you saw him play on the night so its whether you think he's capable of such a bluff for all his chips when after two raises against him, he knows you must have some sort of a hand
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