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Middle set, best turn line

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Middle set, best turn line

New postby Reg » Thu May 27, 2010 11:38 am

The villain I'm worried about is a poor player, running at 45/17/1.5 over 200 or so hands.

Obviously, the flop is pretty standard but when the flush draw completes on the turn, what line do we take?

I don't like checking much, as I think he's going to check behind a lot and its not a board that I'm wanting to give any free cards on but if we bet and he raises, its not a spot in which I'm particularly good at finding folds in.

I'm pretty sure its a routine bet/call, as he can have stuff like AK with a heart if he shoves and if he's somehow got a flush(which is unlikely given he raised UTG)I still have 20% equity

Betfair $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BTN: $16.21
SB: $44.38
Hero (BB): $106.52
UTG: $75.45
CO: $47.28

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with 7 :spade: 7 :diamond:
UTG raises to $1.75, 1 fold, BTN calls $1.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.25

Flop: ($5.50) 7 :heart: 6 :club: A :heart: (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $4.12, BTN calls $4.12, Hero raises to $12, UTG calls $7.88, BTN calls $7.88

Turn: ($41.50) 5 :heart: (3 players)
Hero ????
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Re: Middle set, best turn line

New postby BritishPKR » Thu May 27, 2010 1:36 pm

The raise preflop is good, getiing two callers is scary, so im instantly on the defensive with this hand.

Flop: ($5.50) 7 :heart: 6 :club: A :heart: (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $4.12, BTN calls $4.12, Hero raises to $12, UTG calls $7.88, BTN calls $7.88

I agree that checking wasnt the best option (id have opened for half pot ) << That flush draw needs blocking now imo
However you got a decent result in that they start playing the flop. For me Im Jamming now and if they call hope to pair up or miss that flush...
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Re: Middle set, best turn line

New postby Reg » Thu May 27, 2010 3:05 pm

Yep, I quite like jamming as a line, as I think he might be bad enough to call with AK, especially if he has a heart in his hand but, I also like betting a more standard amount, like say $25, as it doesn't give him the odds to draw if he's still drawing and might create the illusion that he can turn his hand into a bluff, thinking he has a small amount of fold equity and I think we have more chance of stacking him with the odds in our favour this way, than we do by just jamming because we're keeping his range slightly wider by giving him the chance to jam any flush draw that he picked up.
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Re: Middle set, best turn line

New postby Bainn » Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:53 am

Ok, purely from my playing style, why no re-raise pre fella ?
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Re: Middle set, best turn line

New postby PaulRobinson » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:18 am

Looking from Bainns point of view, I certainly would have doubled the bet pre-flop to see if I could eliminate a player, then I would have checked-raised the flop, certainly looking for a shut-down. If your going to take the pot on the turn I think you are going to commit, its a risky move but one that if they are still drawing you are going to have to make and do the push.

Okay hindsight is a wonderful gift, as the hand stands your in a sticky situation at the turn and I think that a half-pot bet is necessary, if someone comes over the top you can fold. An alternative solution would be to make a directive bet aimed at UTG, this would be a powerful way of representing strength, of course your not going to get them off the flush if they have it but you would still have outs if the board paired or you made quads
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Re: Middle set, best turn line

New postby Bainn » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:23 am

PaulRobinson wrote:Looking from Bainns point of view, I certainly would have doubled the bet pre-flop to see if I could eliminate a player, then I would have checked-raised the flop, certainly looking for a shut-down. If your going to take the pot on the turn I think you are going to commit, its a risky move but one that if they are still drawing you are going to have to make and do the push.

Okay hindsight is a wonderful gift, as the hand stands your in a sticky situation at the turn and I think that a half-pot bet is necessary, if someone comes over the top you can fold. An alternative solution would be to make a directive bet aimed at UTG, this would be a powerful way of representing strength, of course your not going to get them off the flush if they have it but you would still have outs if the board paired or you made quads


Yeah, to about $4.25 pre.
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Re: Middle set, best turn line

New postby Reg » Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:44 am

I think 3betting pre is pretty horrible.

The value in small to mid pairs is in their implied odds when you hit a set versus top pair or an overpair. 3betting this pre is totally overplaying the hand, as i)you have to fold to a 4bet and ii)you're going to get called a lot given that the open raise came from early position, which indicates a strong hand and that leaves us in some pretty grim spots post flop when we miss and the inevitable overcards show up.

Also, if we bet this turn for half pot, we have to call a shove because i)the villain could easily be doing it with AxKh which we're in great shape against and ii)we're getting almost the correct odds to boat up on the river, so giving the villain a range of AxKh and made smaller flushes, its a reluctant call.
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