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New postby PaulRobinson » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:49 pm

Each week we will start a discussion thread on how to play a certain hand - this week will be AK, BigSlick.

Your thoughts please
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New postby Snapper » Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:29 am

Personally i think it's quite impossible to answer this because it all depends on situations, table image, passive or loose, etc etc... so there isn't a standard way that i would personally play it.

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New postby robbiebox » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:18 am

I agree with Snapper that the hand is played differently in each situation, I even play it differently in the same situation.
Basic rule is if the table is deep stacked , play it cautiously and dont get too attached to it ( both pre-flop and post-flop). The real power of this hand comes in folding equity , especially later in a tournament when you can pick up blinds,limping calls and even re-raise betters to win uncontested.

Dont listen too much to me though, I have gone out of so many tourneys with this hand.
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New postby Trainglot » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:31 am

In speed STT's eg $30 5 seaters on Celeb, I like to play AK by limping in pre flop and then check-raising if any King or Ace hits the board. What I find is that, in this format (the whole tourney usually lasts around 20 mins), often players holding an Ace or King get themselves pot committed and I can out-kick them.

If an Ace or King does not show I bet immediately after the flop.

Although you might think that the problem with this approach (i.e. not raising before the flop) is that it becomes harder to show strength by representing the flop if an Ace or King doesn't come up, actually I find I CAN represent the flop (by betting about half the pot) BECAUSE there is no Ace or King there - IE players think I hit the non-premium flop with my non-premium hand.

I agre with Jon and Snapper that there are different ways to play this hand in different situations but this approach in this situation regularly reaps success.
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New postby PaulRobinson » Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:38 pm

Now would someone like to post a scenario to discuss AK ;)
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New postby MINTCAKE » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:44 pm

If no one else has raised the blinds preflop you definitely want to raise the blinds to at lest 5 to 10 times the blinds. You do this to chase out the trash hands at the table.
You will have to gauge what kind of raise this will take at the particular table you are at. If there is already a preflop raise at the table you want to reraise. There are two reasons for this.
One is to find out where your opponent is in the hand. Lets say you double the original re raise if the poker player that made the original raise goes over the top of you or goes all in you will have to put him on a hi pocket pair. If that is the case you can minimize your losses and muck the hand. I know it is tough to lay down Big Slick but overtime you will have to fold it lots of times. So if you get a reraise or an all in you know they have the better hand going in and its best to toss the hand and minimize the loss. However if you just get called then you most likely have he best hand at the table.
The other thing that this reraise does is it lets you dictate the action.
You also are representing that you have a Hi pocket pair, which will give you the chance to take the pot down after the flop even if you don’t hit. So lets say you get a caller and the flop comes out trash. You if you are in good position you will most likely get checked to. That is where you need to follow up with a strong bet even if you don’t hit anything. Chances are the other guy didn’t hit anything either and will fold to a bet that would lead him to believe you have a hi pocket pair and with your preflop reraise it will certainly look that way. So you can take the pot down right there with just an Ace hi because of the way you played the hand.
If they are betting in to you and you think you are beat toss the hand. Or if it is an aggressive poker player that you know will test you and make a bet in to you after the flop you might try a reraise if you get reraised again you will have to put him on an over pair or maybe two pair or trips. Remember some people do like playing suited connectors and semi connectors so if the flop hits something like 572 you could be looking at someone that hit two pair or is on a strong draw for a straight and if there are suited cards out you could be looking at a flush draw as well.
So if you make a strong bet after the flop and you get called or reraised you will have to make a decision depending on the poker player you are facing’s past behavior.
If you feel you are beat get out and minimize youre losses.
However you will find that most of the time if you follow a strong preflop raise with strong postflop bet you will take the pot down most of the time. The other thing that happens is that eventually your opponents will pick up on the fact that you will bet with nothing if you make a preflop raise, so even when you do have a strong hand like you hit your set or even two pair you might get someone reraising you to test you. The other thing this does is it makes them fear you because they know that after the preflop raise they will have to call another strong raise after wards.
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New postby Trainglot » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:30 pm

Game #2686639583: Hold'em NL (50/100) - 2006/12/04 - 22:27:07 (UK)
Table "9" Seat 5 is the button.
Seat 1: mmmouse (955 in chips)
Seat 2: Agatonsax (2865 in chips)
Seat 3: Nicamkit (1800 in chips)
Seat 4: Sebula (1990 in chips)
Seat 5: Norman021 (2425 in chips)
Seat 6: Iluvsluts sits out
Seat 7: A5236912 sits out
Seat 8: Grapower (6490 in chips)
Seat 9: Trainglot (3810 in chips)
Seat 10: Kiyser (1800 in chips)
Iluvsluts: posts small blind 50
A5236912: posts big blind 100
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Trainglot [Ks Ac]
Grapower: folds
Trainglot: calls 100
Kiyser: calls 100
Iluvsluts sits back
mmmouse: raises to 955 and is all-in
Agatonsax: folds
Nicamkit: folds
Sebula: folds
Norman021: calls 955
Iluvsluts: folds
A5236912: folds
Trainglot: calls 855
Kiyser: calls 855
----- FLOP ----- [Kc 4d 9h]
Trainglot: checks
Kiyser: bets 845 and is all-in
Norman021: calls 845
A5236912 sits back
Trainglot: raises to 2855 and is all-in
Norman021: is all-in 625
Returned uncalled bets 1,385 to Trainglot
----- TURN ----- [Kc 4d 9h][8s]
----- RIVER ----- [Kc 4d 9h 8s][6h]
----- SHOW DOWN -----
Trainglot: shows [Ks Ac] (A Pair of Kings, Ace high)
Kiyser: shows [Ah 9c] (A Pair of Nines, Ace high)
mmmouse: shows [Jc Jd] (A Pair of Jacks, King high)
Norman021: shows [Qh Qc] (A Pair of Queens, King high)
Trainglot collected 1250 from Side pot #2
Trainglot collected 2535 from Side pot #1
Trainglot collected 3970 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot 7755 Main pot 3970 Side pot #1 2535 | Side pot #2 1250 | Rake 0
Board [Kc 4d 9h 8s 6h]
Seat 1: mmmouse showed [Jc Jd] and lost with A Pair of Jacks, King high
Seat 2: Agatonsax folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Nicamkit folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Sebula folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Norman021 (button) showed [Qh Qc] and lost with A Pair of Queens, King high
Seat 6: Iluvsluts (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: A5236912 (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Grapower folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Trainglot showed [Ks Ac] and won (7755) with A Pair of Kings, Ace high
Seat 10: Kiyser showed [Ah 9c] and lost with A Pair of Nines, Ace high
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New postby psychocopy » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:18 am

Bet your happy nobody had a set
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Roy Rounder on how to play Big Slick in LATE Position

New postby Trainglot » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:55 pm

Big Slick has the reputation for being a MONSTER hand...
a hand that most players LOVE to get dealt.

And with good reason.

After all, it's got a TON of potential.

Think about it:

If you have Big Slick and a King or Ace hit the board,
you've automatically got top pair. And not only that, but
you've also automatically got the highest kicker possible.


Big Slick is connected, which means it has the POTENTIAL to
become the highest STRAIGHT on the board.

Then again, if you're an experienced poker player, then you
KNOW that Big Slick is often HIGHLY OVERRATED by most
amateurs and beginners.

Because if you REALLY think about it, Big Slick by itself is
NOT a good hand.

By itself, it's an Ace high with a King.


It can be beat by just about ANYTHING... from a flush to a
3-of-a-kind to a pair of deuces.

What Big Slick has is the POTENTIAL to be a great hand...
but that doesn't mean it IS a great hand.

And this distinction is VERY important in order to learn how
to play A-K properly.

If you play Big Slick the RIGHT way, you can with it about
75% of the time. If you play it the WRONG way, you'll end up
losing all your chips and whining about your bad beat...

The decision is yours.

So let's approach our strategy for Big Slick with LATE
positioning... which is the equivalent to GOOD positioning,
as you know.

Since the hand can get run down easily, your strategy is to
GET RID of as many players as possible BEFORE THE FLOP.

In other words, SCARE AWAY everyone who doesn't have a pair
or face cards...

If you let too many players stay in, someone with rags is
bound to catch great cards on the flop and steal your chip

But if you go up against players with face cards, then YOU
have the advantage and the odds are in YOUR favor.

This is accomplished, of course, with a pre-flop raise,
which will also give you control over the table... as you'll
see in a minute.

Let's use a real-life hand I played to demonstrate... this
is from last night, actually.

I was in a $1-2 no limit cash game with some friends and got
A-K on the button. Don was first to act and made it $7 to

The action went around the table and every single one of the
next five players called.

Now the action was to me.

How would you handle this situation?

Call, raise, or fold?

The correct answer is RAISE.

"Make it another $50", I say.

And here's why...

Let's say I call. That means there's SEVEN guys in the hand.
Amateurs might say, "Oh, that means there's more money in
the pot."



What seven players means is that I am virtually GUARANTEED
to have my A-K run down... because EVEN IF I catch a King
or Ace, there's a good chance someone else will hit a flush,
straight, trips, or two pair.

And besides... CALLING doesn't give me any idea where I
stand in the hand, and it doesn't allow me to know what to
put my opponents on.

So I make the pre-flop re-raise.

The other players fold, and Don calls.

That means I know he has a real hand... he wasn't just
bullying the table.

It also means he probably doesn't have cowboys or rockets,
because if he did he would've come back over the top of
me... maybe with an all-in.

So now I've got a read on my opponent, and I've forced out
all the other guys, which means I don't have to worry about
someone getting "lucky" on the flop.

AND, I've achieved something else here:

I've taken control of the table.

Instead of Don coming out firing after the flop, he'll
probably check to me... to see what I do.

This gives me control. If I miss on the flop, I can do one
of two things:

1. I can see a free card.


2. If I'm confident with my read on Don I can try to buy him
out by representing a big hand.

And sure enough... the flop hits:


What an UGLY flop, right?

Actually, I kind of like this flop.

Because I'm pretty sure Don doesn't have any of these cards
on the board.

He could be holding pocket 9's, but I can't put him on 4's
or 2's, because of my strong re-raise before the flop.

I'm putting him on two over cards or a pair. It actually
wouldn't surprise me if he has Big Slick, just like me.

Anyway, now it's time to find out, because Don taps his fist
against the table and checks to me.

Just like I expected.

I COULD see a free card here, but I'd rather play this
aggressively and find out EXACTLY where I'm at.

If Don calls a strong bet from me, then he's probably got
trips or a high wired pair. If that's the case, I'll back
off after the turn card and minimize my losses.

I throw out a $100 black chip with my Ace high.

Don looks at his down cards for a few moments and then
decides to muck his pocket 8's for the world to see.

"Yea... I had Kings", I say as I turn my cards face down for
NOBODY to see.

Don replies, "Yup, that's what I put you on" and he nods his

Little does he know, his 8's had me beat, and I just stole a
nice pot...

That's how you play Big Slick the RIGHT way in late
position... You've got to:

1. Scare away as many players as you can before the flop.

2. Take control of the board and action.

3. Find out where you're at in the hand.

Even if Don (or anyone else) came back over the top of me
after my pre-flop raise, I'd be okay... Because then I could
put my opponent on Aces or Kings, muck my Big Slick, and
live to see another hand without catching a "bad beat."

So play A-K aggressively when you've got good positioning,
and back up your pre-flop raise with a post-flop raise, even
if you've hit nothing on the board.

Of course, you can't play Big Slick like this in every
position... this is simply how you play it with good
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New postby BULLY235 » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:17 am

i have just been knocked out o f a tourney after 2 1/2 hrs with the dreaded ak this is my hand log did i play it wrong or did i do it ok you decide

Level XV: 1,000 Ante 3,000/6,000 Blinds (500 Minimum Chip)
Average Stack: 150,490.19 (10,000 starting chips)
Remaining Players: 102 (1535 started)
Seat 1 : sidvicious starts with 184,000
Seat 2 : dogface6969 starts with 109,000
Seat 3 : VALUESIZE starts with 196,500
Seat 4 : NIT2WINIT starts with 209,000
Seat 5 : 7jamie7 starts with 116,000
Seat 6 : mcg8828 starts with 156,000
Seat 7 : StayFly101 starts with 353,000
Seat 8 : BULLY235 starts with 198,500
Seat 9 : JohnM starts with 150,500
Seat 10 : gifted_one71 starts with 1,000
Seat 7 : StayFly101 has the dealer button
BULLY235 dealt down Ks Ac
sidvicious posts the ante 1,000
dogface6969 posts the ante 1,000
VALUESIZE posts the ante 1,000
NIT2WINIT posts the ante 1,000
7jamie7 posts the ante 1,000
mcg8828 posts the ante 1,000
StayFly101 posts the ante 1,000
BULLY235 posts the ante 1,000
JohnM posts the ante 1,000
gifted_one71 posts the ante 1,000 and is all-in
BULLY235 posts the small blind 3,000
JohnM posts the big blind 6,000
sidvicious folds
dogface6969 folds
VALUESIZE calls 6,000
NIT2WINIT raises 6,000 to 12,000
7jamie7 folds
mcg8828 folds
StayFly101 calls 12,000
BULLY235 raises 58,000 to 70,000
JohnM calls 64,000
NIT2WINIT calls 58,000
StayFly101 folds
>>>DEALING FLOP<<< [ Qc 2d Th ]
BULLY235 checks
JohnM checks
NIT2WINIT bets 138,000 and is all-in
BULLY235 calls 127,500 and is all-in
JohnM folds
NIT2WINIT takes back 10,500
NIT2WINIT cards were Jd Kd
BULLY235 cards were Ac Ks
gifted_one71 cards were 4s 9c
>>>DEALING TURN<<< [ Ts ]
>>>DEALING RIVER<<< [ 9h ]
NIT2WINIT wins 483,000 with a king high straight
NIT2WINIT wins 10,000 with a king high straight
BULLY235 finishes in 101st place out of 1535 started (top 40 paid)

should i of folded i think so now on flop but hey it was big slick lol(plus i thought i had more than him in chips lol :lol:
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New postby Snapper » Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:25 pm

First of all i think the reraise you made was a little too big you raised it 6x the original and commited over 1/3 of your stack, although the guy with KJ should never of called pre-flop, and on the flop i think it's safe to assume you should n't of called the all-in bet.

I would of raised to about 36k which is commiting about 1/6th of my stack and easy to get away from on the flop should it not catch which is very likely and with someone betting all in before you and someone yet to act i think you should definately of folded, you still had 128k which is 20 BB's so plenty of time to play still.

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New postby psychocopy » Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:13 pm

I totally agree with snapper on this, never commit your whole stack unless you have the nuts. and never be put in the position that your going to be pot commited.
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